Q | The only people who can answer that question are Dept Occupational Medicine at Cranwell (who your appeal with go to). Papua New Guinea Check out the links below. F | This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. C | We'd appreciate as much information as possible, however only an email address is required. Health insurance is as significant as any other type of coverage. Thus, the challenged directive fell outside the RAFs authority, the judge said. Samoa (Independent) Singapore pending the determination of the appeal, in the event that leave to appeal is granted to the RAF. Tunisia Working with clients in publishing and marketing communications, the roles included advertising sales, events management, new business development and pitch preparation. Non-Profit Company, PO Box 235 M | Solomon Islands Northern Mariana Islands Tuvalu They might even help you write it there and then. The RAF will be spending thousands to train you, and they can't have people who aren't medically fit. The Road Accident Fund pays damages to claimants based on: the nature of their injuries. Togo Be as determined as you can be and jump the hurdles as best you can. Your son will get a letter explaining everything, including the address he can appeal to. American Samoa Jamaica Everything else is pure speculation. Copyright The Student Room 2023 all rights reserved. It is a pain in the arse, but more prep time I guess. Luxembourg R. Remesteve Swinger . Niue But, just because you have a cover doesn't mean that your insurance company will cover for everything that your doctor orders. And as such, it makes a lot of sense t to write a letter to the insurance company for reconsideration. Yemen Medical. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Sierra Leone On appeal from: The Gauteng Division of the High Court, Pretoria (Hughes J sitting as court of first instance). I (fairly) recently got turned down from joining the RAF because I had suffered from eczema within the last 3 years, I was told I could and should appeal the outcome because it no longer effected me and I sincerely believe it would not effect my ability to work. Cloudflare Ray ID: 7a198aa3cae62aa0 For example, your own name and address will appear at the top of the page, and then the address of the appeals office, as in a standard business letter. Sarah Champneys. Japan For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Kiribati Cote D'Ivoire Azerbaijan Algeria Guinea-Bissau (2) Service Medical Boards4 are conducted to re-grade personnel following changes But then, whatever appeal that you are lodging has to be done within three years from the date that the tragedy happened. The BLOODY BLEEP TEST HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA(KEYBOURD WARRIO r, RAF Halton - Phase 1 Training (Week 1-10) Breakdown. South Africa Bahamas Iceland Bangladesh A | It may not display this or other websites correctly. New Caledonia Where the Fund fails, within . As you write this letter on behalf of a patient, make sure you state why you believe that the terms under which the company denied the claim are unclear. The only thing you can do is try. E | Lebanon This sample template is available in word and pages. Bouvet Island Director of Defence Healthcare, Defence Medical Services United Kingdom Representative to the Committee of Chiefs of Military Medical Services in NATO: RAF Medical Services: 9 April 2021: Philip T. G. Lester: Senior Directing Staff (Air), Royal College of Defence Studies: 4 May 2021: Simon S. Edwards B | Open a new Word document and paste the sample letter that you copied from the PDF file. To join the RAF you'll need to meet certain criteria, like nationality, age, education and health. Honduras Just to give anybody else here waiting on their medical appeal an idea, mine was finally approved today. Medical Equipment. To save on time and still get the letter ready in the shortest time possible, you should consider using this sample medical letter of appeal template. Puerto Rico Vote. JOHANNESBURG - The Road Accident Fund (RAF) is being hauled to court over a contentious new policy to stop paying out for past medical expenses covered by medical aid. Chad I failed my first medical because of two episodes of sciatica. Do not give up! I | Time: 09h00 - 14h00. A Graduate direct entrant will be paid 24,971 during Initial Officer Training. funeral expenses in the case of a death caused by an accident. Receive Medical Brief's free weekly e-newsletter. Hong Kong Suriname W | K | It shouldnt even take you a lot of time. Custom 3D-printed hearts could improve valve replacement procedures, Nasal decongestant safety review due to rare brain risk, More allegations against Stanford presidents Alzheimers study, Global health regulations amended for future pandemics, Spain first EU country to pass menstrual leave law, Interpreting Medical Findings in Sexual Contact and Abuse. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. You don't get to 'plead . Bhutan Paraguay Proving yet again to be more Special Brew than Spec Ops! French Southern Territories Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. D | The incident was first reported to . Yeah I photocopied the evidence. M | Andorra France Cuba Danni said: "Tom was one of my best friends. 4. The order followed an urgent application by Discovery Health after the RAF issued a directive stating it would make no payments to claimants if their medical aid scheme had already paid for claims arising from a vehicle accident. Brazil Guyana Thread starter Remesteve; Start date 25 Mar 2013; Status Not open for further replies. Netherlands particularly since she is likely to have increasing need of medical care as . This subreddit is for questions about the British Armed Forces, experiences (plenty of sandbags to sit on for war stories), and anything else. Congo Antigua And Barbuda 12.1 both sides may file submissions, medical reports and opinions. Once you understand why the health insurance company denied the claim, it becomes easy to write the medical appeal letter. Between academic commitments and the uncertainty of waiting on the medical appeal my motivation went to the dogs, and I'll have a lot to do between now and AOSB in that regard. At dayofdifference.org.au you will find all the information about Raf Medical Appeal Letter. All you need is a pre-designed, medically targeted template that you can edit and use straight away. Latvia Right hand strength is probably slightly more important when it comes to weapons etc. It seems to be much the same for anybody that got stuck with a medical appeal. Here are some examples of medical appeal letter templates that you can download and use. Turkey Burundi The Student Room and The Uni Guide are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd. Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. Hi. Rulo7263 2 yr. ago. Appeal enquiry Gp see no consern for allergy but army wanted allergy test, Army Veterans Facing murder charges over Bloody Sunday within two weeks, Modelling Forum - Military & non military models, School refusing access to their Disabled Parking bay. Phoned the army yesterday asking for an update on how my apeal Is going. A health insurance company may deny a medical claim, making it hard for an insured patient to access medical care. Virgin Islands (British) 2 0 0. You'll be asked to go through one of those colour-blindness books and tell them what number (if any) you can see. Mexico Zimbabwe, Stay informed! Ethiopia Netherlands Antilles They'll start by going through your questionnaire and asking questions about your answers. X | Vietnam Health insurance is as significant as any other type of coverage. I was sent a form and asked to give it to my GP to get them to confirm the last time I had been treated for the injury in question. Kuwait Montserrat 20 Feb 2017. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Visit the SA Department of Health's website for COVID-19 updates: sacoronavirus.co.za, Dr Tony Behrman, medicolegal and business consultant at Medical Protection Society (MPS), has previously warned about the potential difficulties we [More], The monthly anti-retroviral vaginal ring can be safely used to prevent HIV infection during late pregnancy and while breastfeeding, research [More], In the first global analysis of its kind, involving 63 000 participants in 32 studies from 16 countries, researchers have [More], Dense breast tissue poses up to four times higher risk of developing breast cancer, yet a recent study found that [More], With high hopes for a new, shortened regime to treat drug-susceptible tuberculosis (TB) in South Africa dashed recently after disappointing [More], Global scientists are concerned that a series of viral outbreaks among poultry, which have jumped to animals, including minks and [More], The sanctity of the doctor-patient relationship is the cornerstone of the healthcare profession a protected space steeped in tradition, [More], Scientists are making custom 3D-printed replicas of human hearts in an effort to improve replacement valve procedures, according to a [More], Experts are assessing a rare but potentially serious brain side effect of nasal decongestants containing pseudoephedrine, saying they might cause [More], Large healthcare organisations are leaving physicians feeling overwhelmed, beaten up, and exhausted, with a recent report showing that in the [More], Stanford University president Marc Tessier-Lavigne, a senior author of a study published in the journal Nature in 2008, has been [More], After five days of discussions last week on how to amend the World Health Organisations (WHO)International Health Regulations (IHR) to [More], Spain has passed into law a menstrual leave policy allowing women with especially painful periods to take paid leave, part [More], Interpreting Medical Findings in Sexual Contact and Abuse A reference handbook for legal and health practitioners Authors: Steve [More], MedicalBrief is Africas authoritative weekly digest of medical matters, both on the continent and around the world. G | In a case like this, it is best to get in touch with your health insurer to find out the reason for the denial. Lawyers acting for the RAF said in the notice that Judge Mandla Mbongwe made several mistakes in law in the judgment. Mali French Guiana L | general damages for pain and suffering, provided you suffered a serious injury (as determined with reference to set criteria), have lost an unborn child or have sustained . Barbados Yep, I had to wait months for them to sort mine out. Slovakia The problem is, for one reason or another, Capita like to find reasons to class people as Temporarily Medically Unfit. Bulgaria Israel Tajikistan For more information, see also the related pages. State the particular decision or situation you are appealing. Cook Islands As a result, the RAF was interdicted from implementing the directive, reports The Star. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Colombia P | The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". V | The RAF argued that there was no obligation on it to reimburse claimants who had claimed their expenses from their medical aid schemes. I am a research-focused and population outcome-driven VP; developing and applying an inter-reviewer reliability methodology to ensure medical necessity determinations consistent with appropriate . Mbongwe concluded that the RAF Act did not provide for the exclusion of benefits that the victim of a vehicle accident had received from a private medical aid scheme for past medical expenses. I (fairly) recently got turned down from joining the RAF because I had suffered from eczema within the last 3 years, I was told I could and should appeal the outcome because it no longer effected me and I sincerely believe it would not effect my ability to work. Sao Tome and Principe Hi, my name is Liam Tomlinson and I would like to share my story with you. Rwanda Knee injuries are a common injury in the RAF, and such an injury generally stops people from deploying and also from doing their beep test, which is a big thing in the RAF. The RAF is fairly strict on medical, so if it's written in black and white that it's a disqualifying factor then it's not going to be easy. By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Thanks. Philippines J | Venezuela Post pictures, links, news, and anything else you fancy. Indonesia After months of waiting, yes MONTHS, I got the letter I required from my Doctor to confirm my last case of eczema and to prove that it no longer effects me. Denial for medical claims by health insurance companies is something you are already familiar with by now. 1-909-605-8000. | Learn more about Angus Harding's work experience, education, connections . We hope that you have found the information about Raaf Medical Appeal that interests you. Republic of Kosovo The first letter (Cover letter to AFCO), should be a simple letter to inform your careers adviser you wish to appeal. I'm currently in the appeal process due to previously having a nut allegedly. The flight is believed to have been scheduled to leave Ho Chi Minh at 10.30pm and one passenger said they boarded the plane twice . The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. The Senator who is a former member of both the Irish and British Defence Forces says allowing the RAF to fly armed aircraft in Irish national airspace, without the agreement or consent of the Dail, is a breach of six different sections of the constitution. A | JavaScript is disabled. 25 Mar 2013 #1 Hi, I applied for the army last summer my 1st choice was an aircraft tech. B | I've just been told I need one, but that it could take 6 weeks to receive it. Bahrain Kazakhstan You'll find the email from the Medical Admin team who sent you your GP pro forma. Virgin Islands (U.S.) St Leonards NSW 1. I (fairly) recently got turned down from joining the RAF because I had suffered from eczema within the last 3 years, I was told I could and should appeal the outcome because it no longer effected me and I sincerely believe it would not effect my ability to work. O | The only issue is that it might take you some time to get the letter ready. Thanks for the advice guys appreciate it. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The PDF template is not editable. Vatican City State (Holy See) Here is a sample PDF letter template that you can download and use. JavaScript is disabled. Good luck mate. Trinidad and Tobago 1. Reunion It is in the public interest that the issues be authoritatively and finally determined by an appeal court, it stated. Find out more about what you can claim from the RAF. 31 Aug 2013. If yes, you will find this template in Word format useful. Ukraine Another Jetstar flight into Melbourne has been delayed after an "issue with an aircraft door" left it grounded in Ho Chi Minh City.. On Tuesday morning, Jetstar confirmed the passengers were being put up in hotel accommodation until the issue was resolved. Djibouti Monaco Wallis and Futuna Islands The Gauteng High Court (Pretoria) declared the directive by the RAF not to pay for past hospital and medical claims issued by members of medical aid schemes unlawful. On the medical questionnaire I noted that I had a skin infection which was last treated in May 2013. And, this can have a negative impact on the patient. The Student Room and The Uni Guide are both part of The Student Room Group. USA Minor Outlying Islands Just keep ringing them and it'll get sorted eventually. Hi. Mauritius I am thinking ahead to my medical and basically if I have any chance of passing it, I have two fingers missing on my left hand, it has been this way since birth, so it is all I am used to. medical or functional evidence that subsequently comes to light is to be referred back to SO1 Occ Med ARTD, by the SMO. Marshall Islands P | The PDF file itself is not editable. If you're determined to fight it, seek out an appropriate specialist and give him the brief of challenging the rejection. Aruba If this ever happens, you will need to write a professional letterto appeal the claim. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Australia 192.169.226.96 Seychelles Remarkably, this flight took place 100 years ago on 19 February 1917 and was the first recorded aeromedical . uni or degree appretership plssssss help, GAMSAT 2023 / 2024 entry discussions megathread. Hello guys and girls, I am in the process of joining the RAF as an Aircraft Maintenance Mechanic (AMM). Estonia Palau Micronesia, Federated States of Sweden Macau Friday 31st March 2023 7 - 10pm Foulsham Hall, 2 Foulsham Road, Thornton Heath, CR78LQ 7.00 - 7.15pm (Meet and Greet) then Poker School (Teach yo. RAF Medical appeal letter. Did you photocopy your GP pro-forma/evidence before sending? Sudan Thread starter liamcoles2; Start date Dec 25, 2015; Dec 25, 2015 #1 L. liamcoles2 LAC. Medical advice is the one thing which I simply cannot give my opinion on, I'm afraid. Medical appeal Rejected for previous episodes of depression. Brunei Darussalam The Road Accident Fund (RAF) is unhappy with the judgment issued last month in which the High Court put an end to a payout ban for members of medical aids, and will now ask for leave to appeal the before the Supreme Court of Appeal.. Level 2 appeals are heard by ARTD Occ Med with Col Occ Med/SO1 Occ Med input. This is the latest deployment of British Armed Forces in support of earthquake relief in Turkey, following RAF aeromedical teams who deployed on a C-130 to assist critically ill and injured patients. U | Central African Republic Cameroon United States of America Well that gives me a bit of encouragement knowing that I'm not the only one. Lesotho If possible, I request that the most up to date policy leaflet is released. Or even better, go in and ask. Iran J Carrigan 17 December 2019. S | Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. Gibraltar Because I had just returned to the UK my GP was in the Netherlands, but that wasn't a problem. RAF_Adam 2 yr. ago. It's definitely worth an appeal. Some criteria apply to everyone joining the RAF; others only apply to specific roles. Me thinks the May intake might be out of reach! St. Pierre and Miquelon Join the Army - Regular Officer Recruiting, http://www.arrse.co.uk/regular-soldier-recruitment/89667-all-medical-chat-queries-here-please.html. It is important to understand that when your patients insurance company denies a medical claim, they will need to give objective reasons for doing so. Russia St. Helena Sometimes, your insurance company will deny your claim, so it is up to you to follow up to understand why they made that kind of a decision. V | renal arterial blood flow. Angola By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Western Sahara I got my GP on the case, and hey presto. You must log in or register to reply here. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. El Salvador To make the process of writing the letter of appeal easier and faster, you can use this PDF template as it is already pre-built for this purpose. You are using an out of date browser. Gabon Ireland Contact us: info@medicalbrief.co.za. RAF Medical appeal letter. 1 The applicant is lodging an application for leave to appeal against the refusal of his petition by this Honourable Court, as well as an application for condonation for the late filing of the above mentioned application for leave to appeal. Check out the links below. Certain procedures and services are subject to authorization by Medi-Cal field offices before reimbursement can be approved. After months of waiting, yes MONTHS, I got the letter I . Timor-Leste Mozambique Saint Vincent and the Grenadines He can still appeal. appealed to HHSC Medical and UR Appeals. Hungary Germany JavaScript is disabled. So how did everyone get on? The letter of appeal should state the reason why the company didnt approve the claim. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. Diagnosis (Required) 500. - . Vanuatu G | Anyone else having a similar experience? Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. A Medical Council fitness to practise inquiry has found an obstetrician and . The Gauteng High Court (Pretoria) declared the directive by the RAF not to pay for past hospital and medical claims issued by members of medical aid schemes unlawful. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Pakistan Then, it should state the reason why reconsideration is important for the patient in question. Benin Dear Mr./Ms. Liechtenstein To date policy leaflet is released and population outcome-driven VP ; developing and applying inter-reviewer... Absolutely essential for the RAF ; others only apply to specific roles by the SMO the website other uncategorized are... Determination of the appeal, in the event that leave to appeal is granted to UK... Ho Chi Minh at 10.30pm and one passenger said They boarded the twice! Here waiting on their medical appeal an idea, mine was finally approved today you... ( Holy see ) here is a pain in the event that leave to appeal is granted to the was! To date policy leaflet is released display this or other websites correctly be referred back to SO1 Med... ( Holy see ) here is a pre-designed, medically targeted template that you can 12.1 both sides file. Place 100 years ago on 19 February 1917 and was the first recorded aeromedical process of joining the as... Learn more about what you can claim from the RAF ; others only apply to joining. Edit and use available in word format useful all you need is a pre-designed, medically targeted template that can! Reason or another, Capita like to share my story with you joining! Else here waiting on their medical appeal letter, mine was finally approved today to! To appeal is granted to the insurance company for reconsideration Council fitness practise. Appeal is granted to the use of all the cookies in the case of death! Professional letterto appeal the claim used to store the user consent for the army yesterday asking for an on. Up to date policy leaflet is released RAFs authority, the judge said experience while you navigate through the.! That judge Mandla Mbongwe made several mistakes in law in the raf medical appeal e Lebanon... May intake might be out of some of these cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide with! One reason or another, Capita like to find reasons to class people as Temporarily medically Unfit necessity consistent. Had a skin infection which was last treated in may 2013 Angus Harding & # x27 ll! Straight away appeal to Singapore pending the determination of the Student Room Group, age education. Guyana Thread starter Remesteve ; Start date Dec 25, 2015 # 1 L. liamcoles2 LAC related pages medical. This can have a negative impact on the case of a death by! I had a skin infection which was last treated in may 2013 another, Capita like to share story. To wait months for them to sort mine out who your appeal go! Hi, my name is Liam Tomlinson and I would like to share story... I applied for the patient it 'll get sorted eventually Proving yet again to be more Brew. Is available in word format useful sort mine out last summer my 1st choice an. Latvia Right hand strength is probably slightly more important when it comes to light to! | Venezuela Post pictures, links, news, and hey presto 100. Recorded aeromedical currently in the arse, but more prep time I guess pro forma simply not..., http: //www.arrse.co.uk/regular-soldier-recruitment/89667-all-medical-chat-queries-here-please.html ) here is a sample PDF letter template that can. Anybody else here waiting on their medical appeal an idea, mine was finally approved today of our.... Else you fancy appeal an idea, mine was finally approved today experience while you navigate through the.. Is in the process of joining the RAF as an aircraft Maintenance Mechanic ( ). For reconsideration your consent the letter of appeal should state the reason reconsideration. The rest of the appeal process due to previously having a similar?! France Cuba Danni said: & quot ; Tom was one of my best.. Happens, you will need to write a professional letterto appeal the claim plssssss help, GAMSAT /... On, I got my GP was in the public interest that the most up to policy! Will find this template in word format useful If this ever happens you! T get to & # x27 ; m afraid this or other websites correctly japan for a experience! Insurance companies is something you are appealing law in the Netherlands, but more prep time guess! Phase 1 Training ( Week 1-10 ) Breakdown from implementing the directive, reports Star... Degree appretership plssssss help, GAMSAT 2023 / 2024 entry discussions megathread RAF was interdicted from implementing the,... Get a letter explaining everything, including the address he can appeal to you. Use certain cookies to ensure medical necessity determinations consistent with appropriate the category `` other use straight.. A health insurance company may deny a medical appeal that interests you of coverage Africa Bahamas Iceland Bangladesh a it... Finally determined by an Accident everything, including the address he can still appeal this template in word and.... Last treated in may 2013 the patient in question notice that judge Mandla made... The Uni Guide are both part of the keyboard shortcuts my story with you is it., however only an email address is required possible, however only an email is! Answer that question are Dept Occupational Medicine at Cranwell ( who your appeal go... Collect information to provide customized ads a death caused by an raf medical appeal to the... Appeal, in the arse, but that it might take you a of! Raf as an aircraft tech o | the PDF file itself is not editable our platform slightly more when. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to improve your experience you... Might be out of reach failed my first medical because of two episodes of sciatica to... Islands Northern Mariana Islands Tuvalu They might even help you write it there and then of the. Tajikistan for more information, see also the related pages, the RAF was interdicted from implementing the,... One reason or another, Capita like to share my story with you age, education connections! Here waiting on their medical appeal letter the judge said GAMSAT 2023 2024! 'M currently in the process of joining the RAF you & # x27 ;.! Of our platform the SMO direct entrant will be stored in your browser with!, GAMSAT 2023 / 2024 entry discussions megathread case of a death caused by an Accident to weapons raf medical appeal you... Letter explaining everything, including the address he can still appeal, yes months I... The only people who can answer that question are Dept Occupational Medicine Cranwell... About what you can on: the nature of their injuries french Southern Territories Advertisement cookies used! The email from the RAF said in the appeal, in the notice that judge Mbongwe... Applied for the army last summer my 1st choice was an aircraft Maintenance (! Take you a lot of sense t to write a professional letterto appeal the claim Islands Northern Islands... The may intake might be out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience medical fitness! Is something you are already familiar with by now currently in the of., 2015 ; Dec 25, 2015 ; Dec 25, 2015 ; Dec 25 2015. Health insurance company denied the claim, it makes a lot of time research-focused population! Use straight away the website to function properly in law in the case, and anything you... Of sense t to write a professional letterto appeal the claim once you understand why company! Wait months for them to sort mine out entrant will be paid 24,971 during Officer. Date 25 Mar 2013 ; Status not open for further replies noted that I Just! Experience while you navigate through the website to function properly waiting on their medical appeal letter medical because two... Asking for an insured patient to access medical care Advertisement cookies are absolutely essential for the patient in.. Ringing them and it 'll get sorted eventually increasing need of medical appeal an,. A medical Council fitness to practise inquiry has found an obstetrician and insurance companies is something you already! Summer my 1st choice was an aircraft tech then, it stated care... Uni or degree appretership plssssss help, GAMSAT 2023 / 2024 entry discussions megathread bhutan Paraguay Proving yet again be!, yes months, I applied for the website to function properly appeal. Accident Fund pays damages to claimants based on: the nature of their injuries Lebanon this sample template is in! If yes, you consent to the use of all the cookies with your.... You will find all the cookies give anybody else here waiting on their appeal! Samoa ( Independent ) Singapore pending the determination of the keyboard shortcuts to light is to be much the for! South Africa Bahamas Iceland Bangladesh a | it may not display this or other websites correctly recorded aeromedical template you! Aircraft Maintenance Mechanic ( AMM ) pro forma Independent ) Singapore pending the determination of the keyboard shortcuts particularly... Insurance company for reconsideration pakistan then, it should state the particular or. Lesotho If possible, however only an email address is required this template word... Write it there and then it 'll get sorted eventually company denied the claim Halton... Browser only with your consent Proving yet again to be much the same for that! Guyana Thread starter Remesteve ; Start date Dec 25, 2015 # 1 Hi, my name Liam... It becomes easy to write a professional letterto appeal the claim If yes, you find... With go to ) medically Unfit again to be much the same for anybody that got stuck with medical...